Out of Character Chat

Togashi Tsukimi · **Posted:** Sun May 03, 2020 6:46 pm

The Star Wars dice just really appeals to me since I greatly enjoy cooperative elements in games.

Miya Mei · **Posted:** Sun May 03, 2020 6:50 pm

Yeah, I much prefer cooperation over confrontation. L5R 4th doesn't do a good job at that really.

Kaiu Maiya · **Joined:** Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:43 am **Posts:** 878

That is a good point. Cooperation is worth encouraging in most systems.

Yasuki Yukarin · **Joined:** Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:22 pm **Posts:** 802

The problem I think most of my players have with the systems, and why they don't want me running the FFG systems, is cooperation should be a part of mechanics that aren't dependent on dice rolls. Maybe the success or failure of the help, but not whether one helps or not. IE, if someone wants to help another player's, I want them to attempt it because that's what they wanted to do, not because they're trying to decide what to do with their advantage dice.

I get that it's up to one's mindset, but when most if not all of my players think one way, I'm not even going to attempt to talk them out of it. There are too many RPGs I own my group can play to feel I have to force a system they're not especially fond of on them, and that I'm not especially comfortable with running yet.

Togashi Mai · **Joined:** Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:22 am **Posts:** 417

I've always, since I learned them, loved FFG dice. Like people have said above with the cooperation bit, but I didn't scan all the way through yet. I still just wanted to chime on the notion that with them it at least gives you a better idea of *why* things didn't work out, and the roll failed.

Like, "Oh, I got three failures, so something like this happened." and that narrative bit to the dice is really really nice. Compared to a TN system it doesn't really tell you anything other than "you failed, deal."

Miya Mei · **Posted:** Sun May 03, 2020 9:21 pm

Yeah, or the whole "I missed my shot, but it made a section of the gas refinery explode, sending freezing carbonite gas everywhere obscuring us from the enemy!"

Kakita Masahiko · **Joined:** Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:04 am **Posts:** 272

In one of his videos, John Wick was talking about letting raises be the "buts" and "ands" of narrative statements about die rolls, so that you can have that narrative structure built into this as well. In that way of thinking, failure on the die roll only meant that the gm narrated the result, not necessarily the success or failure of the action, whereas a successful roll allowed for the player to narrate the result. I thought it was a neat idea. It allows for a lot more richness, and shared control over narrative is a source of a lot of fun.

Miya Mei · **Posted:** Sun May 03, 2020 9:34 pm

I like that, but it doesn't fit with 4th ed sadly since so many things are dependent on calling raises. (Combat maneuvers, Spell bonuses, how "good" your stuff is)

A roll of 50 on a TN of 10 with no raises is just considered acceptable, where
A roll of 50 on a TN of 10 with 8 raises is considered something that would make even Lord Moon weep in beauty.

Kakita Masahiko · **Joined:** Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:04 am **Posts:** 272

I don't think that negates the idea. Rather, it provides a structure for a player or gm to describe just how amazing something is, or the effects of that amazingness.

Those eight raises might mean "My strike slices neatly through the straps of my opponent's obi, and the strike was faster than the eye can follow, and his saya falls to the ground, and he feels shame from this, and the Emperor noticed, and he disapproved (or approved) of my character's callousness to his opponent..." and so on.

Although realistically you're only calling 5 raises tops on pretty much anything, and rarely at that, so you won't get the run-on sentence blues quite as badly.

Moto Akemi · **Joined:** Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:29 am **Posts:** 258

Successes and failures are as good or as bad as the narrative the player puts into them to be in all systems.

Miya Mei · **Posted:** Sun May 03, 2020 10:56 pm

Absolutely true, but there is something to be said about the mechanic benefit of failing that makes new opportunities available.

Suzume Chihaya · **Joined:** Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:29 pm **Posts:** 850

I think the fancy dice of FFG rpgs are much more effective in tabletop settings where you have time to narrate and all that... I find it can lead to a bit of 'but I used a triumph or a destiny point and didn't get what I wanted, or should be able to do X or Y crazy thing' and can be a bit more chaotic.

Especially when lots of players are rolling dice.

I think there are merits to both systems, for different tones and styles of game. Having failure be a way to succeed as a thing that happens during every roll can be a bit much - in some cases, failure is just failure, and success is just success.

Miya Mei · **Posted:** Sun May 03, 2020 11:03 pm

Suzume Chihaya wrote:

I think the fancy dice of FFG rpgs are much more effective in tabletop settings where you have time to narrate and all that...

That is an interesting take. I've always found PbP to be much more giving in terms of narration, where on tabletop i feel rushed to move on.

Here, you can have hours to write a post.

Suzume Chihaya · **Joined:** Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:29 pm **Posts:** 850

Yes, but a GM *doesn't* have hours to write the result of every roll you make and hash out every triumph/destiny spend you want to do.

Miya Mei · **Posted:** Sun May 03, 2020 11:37 pm

That's more on the players, in my experience. They spend it and say what they want, and GM makes approvals or says no, that's too much.

Suzume Chihaya · **Joined:** Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:29 pm **Posts:** 850

Yeah, just more demanding on GM - so if cast is huge, could see it getting overwhelming.

Moshi Yuko · **Joined:** Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:38 pm **Posts:** 108

Kaiu Maiya wrote:

Now I have Dallis Brightmore, the cleric of St Cuthbert, and a face adept in 6E shadowrun. I can't say I'm thrilled with Shadowrun 6E yet, but I'll keep playing.

Let me know if I can help with SR6. I have been doing a fair amount of work with it and I am part of the Catalyst demo team (Woo!).

SR is one of my favorite settings but the rules system has always been funky. That being said, I am digging 6WE so far (though I am about to roll out some house rules).

Miya Mei · **Posted:** Mon May 04, 2020 3:33 am

Can you tell Catalyst I want a new Eclipse Phase?

Daidoji Tetsuko · **Joined:** Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:41 am **Posts:** 391

I love the Shadowrun setting. 2E was the first game I GM'ed

Kakita Masahiko · **Joined:** Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:04 am **Posts:** 272

I like the heist and planning aspects. It suits my game group really, really well.

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